Ledlie Archives - Greg's War

15 January 20198 January 2019

Wednesday 15 January 1919 – A Scruffy RE8 4889

In another photo taken at Abscon, RE8 4889 (actually D4889) stands on the airfield with the cité ouvrière and the spire of Abscon church in the background. Pilot and observer are in position, as is the Lewis gun on the Scarff ring – but so are the wheel-chocks. And there are no ground crew in evidence, so this looks like a posed photo.

RE8 4889

In January 1919, RE8 4889 was in a scruffy state. Scratches, patches and scuff marks are all over it. It used to be pristine. In fact, this is the shiny state in which we saw the same aircraft previously. In the post for 27 August 1918 it was pictured with Capt. Bill Ledlie standing proprietorially in front of the gleaming aircraft:

In this older photograph (probably taken at Rely, to where 42 Squadron had moved on 25 April 1918) the aircraft was clearly pretty new. It had been built by Napier and delivered to the squadron on 8 July 1918. It stayed with them until 28 January 1919. On that day Lt Judd ferried 4889 to St Omer, where 13 Squadron took charge of it. It had survived its time of active war service without major incident.

Possibly 4889 was the aircraft that Capt. Ledlie often flew. The squadron designation was ‘B1’, and Capt. Ledlie was the flight commander of ‘B’ flight. So he might have been the pilot in the photo at Abscon. But Capt. Ledlie didn’t have exclusive use of it. For instance, Greg flew 4889 on 6 October 1918 and 7 October 1918. More likely, since the photograph came from Lt McDermont, who later emigrated to New Zealand, it was he who was the pilot in the January 1919 photo.

The Abscon RE8 Photographs

This photograph is one of a series of aeroplanes and crew taken – probably at least semi-officially – at Abscon. Two others have been posted in previous weeks, one (of 2872) from Greg’s collection and one (of 2924) from the Air Force Museum of New Zealand, as this one was.

Wednesday 1 January 1919 – Greg’s Last Flight

Wednesday 8 January 1918 – RE8 2924 and Lt McDermont

No doubt there are others in museums and dusty attics around the world. And more still that have been lost or destroyed.

Abscon Church

In the January 1919 photograph of 4889, the stubby spire of Abscon church rises above the house behind the tail of the aircraft. That church is now gone. According to French Wikipedia:

The old church, built in 1892 and closed to worship in July 1969 because of mining subsidence, was replaced by a new building inaugurated in 1981.

It was the stubbiness of this spire that made me think that the spire in the photograph in the post for 28 December 1918 was probably not Abscon’s, but more likely to be that of Saultain:

Saturday 28 December 1918 – Last Few Days at Saultain

Thanks once more to…

Matthew O’Sullivan, Keeper of Photographs at the Air Force Museum of New Zealand for granting permission to use the photo.
Andrew Pentland of www.airhistory.org.uk, whose Royal Flying Corps pages contain information about RE8 D4889.

8 November 20188 November 2018

Friday 8 November 1918 – Ascq Aerodrome

42 Squadron RAF only arrived at Ascq Aerodrome on 22 October 1918, and would be leaving in three days time. Among Greg’s collection are two photographs of him and a few fellow officers, taken on the airfield, with some still identifiable houses behind them. Meanwhile, the everyday business of B Flight – reconnaissance and counter-battery patrols and a shoot – continues. As it turned out, these would be the last counter-battery patrol and the last shoot flown by the flight in the war. Greg did not fly today.

B Flight Orders

B FLIGHT ORDERS FOR 8.11.1918:-
2707 10.00 12.30 Lt Judd       Lt Elliott  RECON & CBP
4889   when fit  Lt Bon        Capt Gordon   SHOOT
                 Lt Sewell     Lt Whittles  NEXT JOB
                 Lt Wallington Lt Bett       - do –

E27 will be ready to leave the ground at 630.

                             Wm. Ledlie, Capt.

Ascq Aerodrome

The Anciens Aerodromes website pinpoints the site of Ascq aerodrome as being just south of the junction of the Rue des Fusilés and the Rue de la Tradition/Rue Gaston Baratte. The road junction is itself only a few hundred yards/metres southwest of the centre ville of Ascq itself, as can be seen on this embedded Google map:

Today, the site of the airfield is mostly an industrial estate, with a bit of scrubland and some allotment land – with what looks like an asparagus bed on the right! –

Photo of the site of Ascq aerodrome, June 2018 — The site of Ascq aerodrome, June 2018. Looking south from the Rue de la Tradition towards the marker in the Google map, above. Click for larger image.

Photos with the Rue des Fusilés in the Background

Here are the two photographs of Greg and others. They are taken with buildings on the Rue des Fusilés being visible behind them.

The first:

Greg (second from left, front row) and others on the airfield at Ascq. Third from left in the front row is probably Capt. Bill Ledlie. Click for larger image. Credit: Greg’s War Collection

The houses on the left of the group are still there, on the Rue des Fusilés, although somewhat altered and built around:

Houses on the Rue des Fusilés in June 2018. The cream house on the left and the red-roofed building, since refashioned but recognisable by its chimneys, were there in 1918. Click for larger image

And the second, probably taken on the same occasion:

Photo of Greg (on the right in the back row) and others on the airfield at Ascq — Greg (on the right in the back row) and others on the airfield at Ascq. Seated in the middle in the in the front row is Capt. Bill Ledlie. Click for larger image. Credit: Greg’s War Collection

Note the house with the patterned roof, visible between the observer standing on the left and other other five. It is still quite conspicuous on the Rue des Fusilés:

Photo of house with pattered roof on the Rue des Fusilés in June 2018 — House with pattered roof on the Rue des Fusilés in June 2018. Click for larger image

7 November 20188 November 2018

Thursday 7 November 1918 – B Flight Work Continues

Although Greg was not flying again today, it was business as usual for B Flight, 42 Squadron RAF at Ascq. Reconnaissance and counter-battery patrols and shoots were in today’s daily orders. An apparent dual role for Lt Sewell is resolved.

B Flight Orders

B FLIGHT ORDERS FOR 7.11.1918
2517  6.0  830 Lt Wallington Lt Bett     Recon & CBP
4889 1200 1430 Lt Bon        Capt Gordon  – do –
6740           Lt Sewell     Lt Sewell   Shoot
2707           Lt Judd       Lt Whittles    do
E27            Capt Ledlie   Lt Paton       do
                             Lt Mulholland

Pilots and observers who have not passed all tests will please arrange to do so tomorrow.
The early machine will send down a weather report at 6.45 so that, if fit, the people on shoots can get into the air without any loss of time.

                         W.  Ledlie, Capt.

There are obviously a couple of mistakes here. I have corrected Capt. Ledlie’s implication that he himself was still a lieutenant. But then there is Lt. Sewell’s designation as both pilot and observer in 6740! Judging from other entries in the B Flight Orders, he was in fact a pilot. And he often flew with Lt Whittles as observer. So probably Lt Sewell’s name should just be deleted from the observer’s column, and those named beneath him shunted up.

Lt Denis Charles Sewell

Lt Denis Charles Sewell was born on 31 October 1898. Prior to being commissioned as a 2nd lieutenant in 42 Sqn, he was in the Honourable Artillery Company.

‘Tests’

The nature of the ‘tests’ that both pilots and observers must pass is not explained.

6 November 20188 November 2018

Wednesday 6 November 1918 – B Flight Orders

It was another non-flying day for Greg, but today we can see why. For the last few days of the war, we have copies of the daily orders for B Flight, 42 Squadron RAF. And today’s entry shows that Greg was the first reserve pilot on the list for any job that fell due after the already scheduled reconnaissance flights and shoots. As it turned out, he stayed on the ground.

B Flight Orders

B FLIGHT ORDERS FOR 6.11.1918
2707 0800.1030 Lt Sewell     Lt Whittles   RECON.
6740 1400.DUSK Lt Judd       Lt Elliott    - do –
E27            Capt. Ledlie  Lt Mulholland SHOOT
4889           Lt Bon        Capt. Gordon  - do –
               Lt Wallington Lt. Bett      - do –
               Lt Gregory

                             Wm. Ledlie, Capt

Presumably other flights from the squadron will have fielded aircraft for further reconnaissance patrols and other jobs during the day.

The flight’s daily orders, and presumably those for the other flights, were nothing very grand. They were hand written and signed by the Officer Commanding the flight or his deputy. What we see above is evidently a carbon copy of the orders in Army Book 152, a correspondence book for field service. Probably a notice board or somewhere equally prominent displayed the original for all concerned to see.

5 November 20182 March 2023

Tuesday 5 November 1918 – B Flight, 42 Sqn RAF at Ascq

On one of the first few days of November 1918, when other duties didn’t interfere, B Flight of 42 Squadron had a group photograph taken. If it wasn’t taken on this day, then for various reasons it can’t have been more then four days earlier or five days later.

Group photo of B Flight, 42 Squadron RAF. — B Flight, 42 Squadron RAF. Click for larger image. Credit: Greg’s War Collection.

Faces of B Flight

Some of the faces are recognisable, but many are not. Of those that are:

Lt. John Macmillan is second from the left of the front row. (Thanks to Douglas Macmillan, John Macmillan’s grandson, for identifying him.) More on Lt. Macmillan here:

Saturday 26 October 1918 – Prop. Split by Shrapnel

Next to John Macmillan, Greg is third from the left of the front row .
Capt. Bill Ledlie is seated fifth from the left, in the centre. At his feet are a shield and Waso, Capt. Gordon’s dog. More about Capt. Ledlie here:

Tuesday 27 August 1918 – No Flying – Bill Ledlie

Next to Capt. Ledlie is Capt. Cedric Gordon, seated sixth from the left. More about Capt. Gordon here:

Friday 1 November 1918 – Shoot with Capt. Gordon

Next to Capt. Gordon is Lt Edward Ives (fourth from right), who had evidently returned to the squadron after his posting to the home establishment on 28 June 1918. Thanks to Julian and Les Ives for confirming their grandfather’s identity. More about Lt Ives here:

Saturday 29 June 1918 – CBP Cancelled by Weather

Today’s photograph looks like a more or less complete grouping of the officers and men of B Flight, 42 Squadron. The photos taken at Rely and recorded in the post for 25 August 1918 were apparently just of the officers of the flight:

Sunday 25 August 1918 – Did Not Fly – 42 Sqn B Flight Photos

26 October 201829 March 2021

Saturday 26 October 1918 – Prop. Split by Shrapnel

Two attempts at photography today. The first, in cloudy conditions in the morning, was unsuccessful. The second was a success, with at least 20 plates exposed of the River Scheldt, north of Tournai. But success was accompanied by a narrow escape, as shrapnel from anti-aircraft fire split the propeller of RE8 2517. Fortunately, Greg and his observer Lt John Macmillan were able to return safely to the aerodrome at Ascq.

Log Book

Date: 26.10.18 
Time Out: 9.45 
Rounds Fired – Lewis: - 
Rounds Fired – Vickers: - 
Bombs: - 
Time on RE8s:  178 hrs 05 mins 
RE8: 2517 
Observer: McMillan [sic, should be Macmillan]
War Flying: 0 hrs 50 mins 
Height: 3000 
Course/Remarks:  Photos – too cloudy.

Date: 26.10.18 
Time Out: 12.20 
Rounds Fired – Lewis: - 
Rounds Fired – Vickers: - 
Bombs: - 
Time on RE8s:  178 hrs 45 mins 
RE8: 2517 
Observer: McMillan [sic, should be Macmillan]
War Flying: 0 hrs 40 mins 
Height: 3500 
Course/Remarks:  Photos – 20 plates.

Although the log book gives little in the way of detail, there is more in the Squadron Record Book:

Squadron Record Book

Click for larger image.

Type and Number: R.E.8.2517
Pilot and Observer: P. Lt Gregory. O. Lt McMillan [sic, should be Macmillan]
Duty: Photography
Hour of Start: 0945, 1220
Hour of Return: 1035, 1300
Remarks: 1240. 12 24 plates exposed over I.A. & I.C. zones from 3500’.
A.A. [Anti-aircraft fire] Accurate, apparently at long range. (Propellor split by shrapnel.)
E.A. [Enemy aircraft] Nil.
Vis.Good.Clouds 3700’.  Height 3500’.  Obs.by P.&.O.

IA and IC Zones

Zones IA and IC together form the left hand (west) side of square I on map sheet 37. They cover the River Scheldt a few miles north of Tournai. Pont-à-Chin, the scene of yesterday’s patrol, is at the bottom of zone IC, and Pecq is at the top of zone IA:

Map showing zones photographed on 26 October 1918, north of Tournai. Adapted from a 1:40,000 scale map. Each numbered square is 1,000 yards. Click for larger image. Map credit IWM/TNA/Great War Digital.

Propeller Split

Shrapnel from anti-aircraft fire (‘archie’) hit the propeller of the aircraft and split it. The RE8’s propeller was of laminated hardwood construction, which probably limited the damage to a split. The laminations can be seen in this photograph of the RAF Museum’s replica RE8 built by The Vintage Aviator Limited of New Zealand:

Replica RE8 at Hendon — Propeller and engine detail of the replica RE8 A3930 at the RAF Museum, Hendon. Click or tap to see full size image.

In the event, the damage wasn’t so severe as to prevent the aircraft being flown back to Ascq. Nonetheless, it was certainly a case of: Archibald, certainly hot – as the song almost had it!

Thursday 13 June 1918 – CBP and ‘Archie’

Lt John Gibb Brown Macmillan

Greg’s observer today was Lt John Gibb Brown Macmillan. Both Greg’s log book and the Squadron Record book spell his name as McMillan. But when Lt Macmillan signed his name on the front of the menu of the Farewell Dinner to mark the squadron’s departure from Rely on 10 October 1918, he unmistakably wrote ‘Macmillan’. See the post containing the menu here (Macmillan’s signature is above the girl’s cap):

Thursday 10 October 1918 – Rely Farewell Dinner

John Macmillan was born on 19 October 1898, and so had celebrated his 20th birthday exactly one week ago. Greg’s diary says nothing about him. But the list of RFC/RAF people at airhistory.org.uk notes that on 29 June 1918 he suffered a forced landing with Lt Bill Ledlie at Créquy in RE8 C2478:

Ok [C2478 RE8] f/l Crequy due thick fog on artly patrol. Lt W Ledlie Ok/2Lt JGB Macmillan Ok

42 Squadron were operating out of Rely at the time, and Créquy is some 15 miles (24 km) southwest from Rely, towards the coast. The nearest point of the front line was 11 miles (18 km) in precisely the opposite direction. So presumably they had (seriously) overshot Rely in the fog on the way home.

The two flights today were to be the only ones in which Greg and Lt Macmillan flew together.

Next up…

The next entry in Greg’s log book is for Tuesday 29 October 1918.

27 August 20188 January 2019

Tuesday 27 August 1918 – No Flying – Bill Ledlie

No flying for Greg today. As he wasn’t keeping up his diary any longer, we don’t know the reason. But we can take the opportunity of an off-day to look a little more at Bill Ledlie.

Captain William Ledlie RAF

Bill Ledlie was the Commanding Officer of B Flight, 42 Squadron RAF. In the post for 25 August 1918, a couple of days ago, he was to be seen sitting (in shorts!) front-and-centre of the group photographs of the B Flight officers.

Ledlie was an Ulsterman, born on 16 April 1894 according to the IWM’s Lives of the Great War, who attended Banbridge Academy. Banbridge is a town in County Down that grew wealthy on the linen industry. It is on the A1 between Lisburn and Belfast to the north, and Newry and Dublin to the south.

Ledlie was some five years older than Greg, and was his commanding officer. But the two became friendly, as evidenced by the several photographs of Ledlie in Greg’s collection.

Capt. Bill Ledlie, CO B Flight, 42 Sqn RAF, with RE8 — Capt. Bill Ledlie, CO B Flight, 42 Sqn RAF, standing in front of an RE8 bearing (appropriately enough) the squadron marking B1 “somewhere in France”. Click for larger image. Photo credit: Greg’s War Collection.

Capt. Bill Ledlie, “somewhere in France”. Click for larger image. Photo credit: Greg’s War Collection.

After the War

Ledlie and Greg had apparently made some tentative plans for after the war. They would go into business together, drawing on their aviation skills, but nothing ever came of it.

Although Ledlie survived the Great War, he died during the Second World War on 23 October 1940 when co-piloting the sole example of a de Havilland DH.95 Hertfordshire, no. R2510. The Hertfordshire was the military transport variant of the de Havilland DH.95 Flamingo. The IWM has a photograph of this aircraft here.

According to Peter Clare, in a post on the WW2Talk forum ‘The War in the Air’, Air Vice Marshal Charles Hubert Boulby Blount was on board. Peter Clare writes:

The aircraft took off on a sortie to Belfast and was carrying a crew of five and six passengers. Shortly after taking off the aircraft crashed into some houses at Woodlands Way [sic, should be ‘Woodland Way’], Mill Hill, London and all those on board were killed. The aircraft was the sole Hertfordshire in use with the RAF and it was a military version of the Flamingo aircraft. No Accident card was found for this aircraft nor could any reference to the outcome of the Board of Enquiry be located. AVM Blount was AOC 22 Group at the time of his death and was on a scheduled flight to Belfast to discuss joint training exercises with the GOC Northern Ireland.

Wikipedia records that the cause of the crash was jamming of the elevator.

Woodland Way is a short residential road just over a mile (about 2 km) north of what was then RAF Hendon (now the site of the RAF Museum) by Mill Hill Broadway Railway Station and backing on to the M1 motorway:

RE8 4889

The Abscon RE8 Photographs

Abscon Church

Thanks once more to…

B Flight Orders

Ascq Aerodrome

Photos with the Rue des Fusilés in the Background

B Flight Orders

Lt Denis Charles Sewell

‘Tests’

B Flight Orders

Faces of B Flight

Log Book

Squadron Record Book

IA and IC Zones

Propeller Split

Lt John Gibb Brown Macmillan

Next up…

Captain William Ledlie RAF

After the War

42 Squadron, B Flight Photographs